Noob questions
- hesedmedia
- Member
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:14 am
- Location: Charleston, WV
Noob questions
Hi all, this is my first post, and I'm not entirely sure if it should go in here or not. I've shot the last two USPSA matches with you gents, and I've been practicing live and dry fire since this last one, and reading as much as I can, but I haven't been able to figure this out:
When firing rapidly, and attempting to place your follow-up shot, should one seriously be able to track the front sight everywhere that it goes? This is the method that (I believe) Todd Jarret (among others) describes, but I have been trying that for a while and still can't keep track of exactly where the front sight is going. It seems to take me longer to do that than to just approximate returning the gun to the same place. I'm sure trigger has something to do with it as my XD-9 has a horrid trigger pull, but I should still be able to track the sight... I dunno... what do you guys do for those quick two-shots?
When firing rapidly, and attempting to place your follow-up shot, should one seriously be able to track the front sight everywhere that it goes? This is the method that (I believe) Todd Jarret (among others) describes, but I have been trying that for a while and still can't keep track of exactly where the front sight is going. It seems to take me longer to do that than to just approximate returning the gun to the same place. I'm sure trigger has something to do with it as my XD-9 has a horrid trigger pull, but I should still be able to track the sight... I dunno... what do you guys do for those quick two-shots?
As I have just started myself this might or might not help but I didn't notice myself that I was blinking when the gun fired. This caused me to lose the front site. Once I bought better ear protection I found it much easier to keep my eyes open and now more often than not I see the recoil of the font site. Once I started to notice this I found I was able to follow up shots faster. I could be wrong but I would bet you blinking its natural and I am having to train myself to stop doing it. Am getting better but I still do it from time to time. This and trigger slapping is why I had problems hitting the poppers at the last match. I had to slow down and focus on my front site and follow though. Then I heard the ding.
Again am no expert and I have just started but that would be my guess.
Again am no expert and I have just started but that would be my guess.
Aiming.. Few of us do it, all of us should ;-)
One drill that the Ratliff Clan showed me is called a Bill Drill (fairly well-known to shooter types, unknown to me at the time).
Put a target out at a desired distance (20 yards is good).
Load and holster your gun just as you do before shooting a stage. Draw, and shoot two shots, but shoot them slow enough to get A hits. Don't worry about speed at first. Safety, holster, rinse, repeat. When you slow down you can watch the sight and see where it is going and, most importantly, get comfortable with the gun you're using.
I did those a lot when I first started to get comfortable shooting fast. I've been shooting since I was 6 but I never shot higher caliber pistols and definitely never did any quick-draw run-and-gun stuff. I was (and still am) very nervous about handling a gun that fast so starting REALLY slow helped me a bunch.
I need to practice what I preach and get out and do about a million bill drills myself. I've gone from slow an accurate to fast an inaccurate. Master Blaster, emphasis on the Blaster....
One drill that the Ratliff Clan showed me is called a Bill Drill (fairly well-known to shooter types, unknown to me at the time).
Put a target out at a desired distance (20 yards is good).
Load and holster your gun just as you do before shooting a stage. Draw, and shoot two shots, but shoot them slow enough to get A hits. Don't worry about speed at first. Safety, holster, rinse, repeat. When you slow down you can watch the sight and see where it is going and, most importantly, get comfortable with the gun you're using.
I did those a lot when I first started to get comfortable shooting fast. I've been shooting since I was 6 but I never shot higher caliber pistols and definitely never did any quick-draw run-and-gun stuff. I was (and still am) very nervous about handling a gun that fast so starting REALLY slow helped me a bunch.
I need to practice what I preach and get out and do about a million bill drills myself. I've gone from slow an accurate to fast an inaccurate. Master Blaster, emphasis on the Blaster....
--
- Mitchell Vincent
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
- Mitchell Vincent
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
- hesedmedia
- Member
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:14 am
- Location: Charleston, WV
Thanks, Mitch. I've seen that drill on line and it's on my list of things to do at the range as soon as it warms up a bit. I don't think I'm blinking, as I can watch the slide come back and go forward. I just can't keep track of the front sight when the gun starts sliding. Like I can't get my eyes to keep focus on the front sight. And when the gun completes the recoil cycle, it's always just a bit off to the right or left (primarily right) of center. Which I suppose suggests that I should put less pressure with my thumbs. *shrug*
I'll try that bill drill and such. I'm thinking about getting XS big dot sights to help. It's a giant front dot sight with a shallow V in the back: www.xssights.com
I think that might help. I've painted my stock XD sights white in the back and orange in the front, which helped a lot, so I think the big dot may help more.
Thanks, guys.
I'll try that bill drill and such. I'm thinking about getting XS big dot sights to help. It's a giant front dot sight with a shallow V in the back: www.xssights.com
I think that might help. I've painted my stock XD sights white in the back and orange in the front, which helped a lot, so I think the big dot may help more.
Thanks, guys.
Not that I'm particulary qualified to give advice, but here are some things that helped me.
1. It is really not the gear (at least not in Limited and Production). I've found that good quality plain black sights work best for me, but others prefer different set-ups. Get whatever you are comfortable with and practice. Obviously, high capacity magazines offer an advantage.
2. If you can't hit the target slow, there is no way you'll do it fast. Get comfortable with your gun and confident that if there is no time pressure, you KNOW that you can hit the target. It is important to master the fundimentals of sight alignment, trigger press, and follow through. A useful dry fire drill is to rest a coin on top of your front sight and practice pressing the trigger without disturbing its position.
3. You really need to see the front sight to have any real degree of consistency on anything but the closest targets. We all get lazy with close range, blazing stages, but looking at the front sight is critical. I've often heard that if you are really concentrating, you should be able to see the front sight serrations. There are several accounts of LEO's winning gun fights that have made just that statement.
4. To directly answer your original question about how closely you need to look at the front sight when trying to shoot two quick shots depends to some extent on the distance to the target. For extremely close shots, you might not need to look at the sights at all (near contact distance). As the distance increases, you need at least one good sight picture with two quick trigger presses (but not two sight pictures). I'd call this the typical "double tap" or "hammer." As the distance stretches out further, and it depends on the shooter, somewhere between 7 and 15 yards, you'll have to take two distinct sight pictures, sometimes called a "controlled pair." For instance, if you are going to shoot twice at a target 50 yards away, you are going to have to take a distinct sight picture, press the trigger, and manage follow through twice if you want to hit the target.
Mitch's advice about the Bill Drill is good for mastering recoil. A variation is to set up a target, draw and fire two shoots as quickly as possible while maintaining A zone hits. Start at 3 yards and back off to 5, 10, 15, and 25 yards and you'll see how you have to focus more and more on the sights.
5. Lastly, if you can manage a class somewhere, take it. I know that I learned more in my first 3.5 day handgun class, than I did in 10 years of plinking at the range.
1. It is really not the gear (at least not in Limited and Production). I've found that good quality plain black sights work best for me, but others prefer different set-ups. Get whatever you are comfortable with and practice. Obviously, high capacity magazines offer an advantage.
2. If you can't hit the target slow, there is no way you'll do it fast. Get comfortable with your gun and confident that if there is no time pressure, you KNOW that you can hit the target. It is important to master the fundimentals of sight alignment, trigger press, and follow through. A useful dry fire drill is to rest a coin on top of your front sight and practice pressing the trigger without disturbing its position.
3. You really need to see the front sight to have any real degree of consistency on anything but the closest targets. We all get lazy with close range, blazing stages, but looking at the front sight is critical. I've often heard that if you are really concentrating, you should be able to see the front sight serrations. There are several accounts of LEO's winning gun fights that have made just that statement.
4. To directly answer your original question about how closely you need to look at the front sight when trying to shoot two quick shots depends to some extent on the distance to the target. For extremely close shots, you might not need to look at the sights at all (near contact distance). As the distance increases, you need at least one good sight picture with two quick trigger presses (but not two sight pictures). I'd call this the typical "double tap" or "hammer." As the distance stretches out further, and it depends on the shooter, somewhere between 7 and 15 yards, you'll have to take two distinct sight pictures, sometimes called a "controlled pair." For instance, if you are going to shoot twice at a target 50 yards away, you are going to have to take a distinct sight picture, press the trigger, and manage follow through twice if you want to hit the target.
Mitch's advice about the Bill Drill is good for mastering recoil. A variation is to set up a target, draw and fire two shoots as quickly as possible while maintaining A zone hits. Start at 3 yards and back off to 5, 10, 15, and 25 yards and you'll see how you have to focus more and more on the sights.
5. Lastly, if you can manage a class somewhere, take it. I know that I learned more in my first 3.5 day handgun class, than I did in 10 years of plinking at the range.
- hesedmedia
- Member
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:14 am
- Location: Charleston, WV
Yeah, I'd love to take a class, I just don't know of anywhere around here to take one (I'm in Charleston, WV). Well, aside from the CHL class, that I have already taken and didn't find particularly helpful.
I guess the reason i thought that the sights might help is the huge improvement it made for me to paint the rear and front different colors. I've always had a lot of trouble distinguishing them from each other, perhaps because I am naturally left-eye dominant and shoot right-handed. I've almost retrained my eyes now, but the paint helped a lot. But I do realize what you're saying, that 95% of shooting is the shooter, not the gear. I was just hoping to find the gear that would help inch me forward![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'll definitely get on those two-shot drills, and I might try that penny trick, too. thx all
I guess the reason i thought that the sights might help is the huge improvement it made for me to paint the rear and front different colors. I've always had a lot of trouble distinguishing them from each other, perhaps because I am naturally left-eye dominant and shoot right-handed. I've almost retrained my eyes now, but the paint helped a lot. But I do realize what you're saying, that 95% of shooting is the shooter, not the gear. I was just hoping to find the gear that would help inch me forward
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'll definitely get on those two-shot drills, and I might try that penny trick, too. thx all
Watch your front sight and let it dictate your shooting cadence. It is hard to do when the buzzer goes off, but to be successful in handgun shooting, you can not shoot faster than you can track the front sight. If you are having major issues with the front sight moving too much under recoil, then you really ought to look at your shooting grip and stance.
There are several Grand Master and Master class shooters on here that can give good advice, but it generally must be shown in person, and can not be sufficiently explained with a key board. Look for Allen or BJ Ratliff, Chuck Bradley, or Gary Stevens at the next match. They can show you a couple of tricks.
There are several Grand Master and Master class shooters on here that can give good advice, but it generally must be shown in person, and can not be sufficiently explained with a key board. Look for Allen or BJ Ratliff, Chuck Bradley, or Gary Stevens at the next match. They can show you a couple of tricks.
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Thanks Scott.
Everyone has contributed some great advice. One more thing, make sure you are shooting with both eyes open.
Everyone has contributed some great advice. One more thing, make sure you are shooting with both eyes open.
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ F__ - Obama/Biden
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ F__ - Obama/Biden
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................
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